From foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org Mon Mar 1 02:58:19 2004 From: foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org (Forrest Carroll) Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:58:19 -0800 Subject: [foh-mail-list]Re: web site In-Reply-To: <01be01c3ff20$5fe3b220$ca01a8c0@pacbell.net> References: <01be01c3ff20$5fe3b220$ca01a8c0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: Here's a few more thoughts from Forrest. >From Devin, comments below. I may have more latter. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Forrest Carroll" >Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 9:47 AM > >> (NOTE: A reply to this message should be distributed to the list.) >> >> I would like to start a discussion about what we are doing as an >> organization, and more particularly, what purpose we want our web >> site to serve. I met Pete yesterday at the Wintergrass festival in >> Tacoma where he was playing. In our discussion, we decided that >> before we pay anyone to maintain our website, we need to know what it >> is for, and have an idea of the design. I had these ideas, that I >> want to use as a starting point for this discussion. >> >> -------- >> >> Our web site is for: >> 1) adding members? >> What is a member? Just someone who subscribes to the newsletter? > >Yes. and yes. FC: Given the few number of people who subscribe, would we reach more people by publishing the newsletter via the website? As an alternative? We might make the membership separate. > >> >> 2) selling HFK and Why Evolution? >> Possibly. > >Yes. > >> >> 3) a service to people who need guidance in how to raise children in >> a world surrounded by Christian fanatics? > >Somewhat. But I don't see the "not Christian" angle as the most important. >I think of Humanism as a philosophy that would be important even if >Christianity and other religions did not exist. Of course, Humanism would >be somewhat different then. Maybe better. Humanism is a very rich >philosophy, and would be without any mention of what we are not. FC: In the discussion with Pete that I had, we noted that you, Lloyd, myself, and Pete (not to mention Jan & Wayne) started FOH or came to FOH partly out of response to Christian pressure, people we were close to who were Christians, who we needed to response to. I know that Humanism is much more than that, but we noted the particular need that FOH might fill, in light of where we all came from. > >> >> 4) a forum for Humanists with families or young children? >> > >Yes. FC: Is this by a mailing list, or by accepting responses via the website to the newsletter? Or ? > >> -------- >> >> Does the Family of Humanists fill a niche that is not filled by other >> Humanist organizations? >> > >A good question. I think yes, but this is debateable. > >> -------- >> >> What can be added to the website, or how can the website design be >> changed, to better serve its purpose? > >> - Text from back issues of the newsletters? > >I think this would be good. > >> - History of Humanism reprints? (Devin, are you working on this as a >> publication?) > >It's waiting for illustrations by Madeline, who is being excrutiatingly >slow. I may need to look for someone else. > >> - Advice on how to deal with Christian relatives or how to raise kids >> as Humanists? > >Suggestions and ideas more than advice. > >Thanks to Forrest and Peter to giving this some good thought. > > >> >> ------- >> > > -Forrest From foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org Wed Mar 3 06:16:50 2004 From: foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org (Lloyd Kumley) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:16:50 -0800 Subject: [foh-mail-list]foh web site Message-ID: Thank you Forrest (and Pete) for starting the discussion. I reply to Forrest's request for a discussion about what we are doing as an organization, and more particularly, what purpose we want our web site to serve. >He suggests our web site is for: >1) adding members? I agree that this is one purpose. (Without some advertising, we're slowly disappearing. >Forrest asks further: >What is a member? Just someone who subscribes to the newsletter? This is a good question...the bylaws say "any person is eligible for membership who is in general sympathy with the aims, positions, and purpose of the FOH." And, "Every member shall contribute annually toward the support of FOH either in money or in personal services or in both. Each member is expected to contribute adeqeuately according to his or her means and abilities. Membership fees, if any, shall be fixed by the Board." The aims and purpose are set forth in 2 paragraphs... Perhaps, all or part of the bylaws should be on the website, as well. I've not been alerting subscribers of all requirements of membership for a great number of years. As secretary, in elections, I've given one vote to each family or group with a subscription to one of our newsletters. Now that we no longer have multiple newsletters, this is less of an issue...but the bylaws say every member has a vote...I've been giving one vote per subscription. Maybe that should change? Some organizations have a variety of membership types: individuals, couples, families, students, etc...others have several levels of support: regular memberships, donors, larger donors, etc... I note that the bylaws say "every person who has satisfied the requirements of membership may vote ...". The last several elections hardly any members have voted. Forrest suggests another reason for the website: >2) selling HFK and Why Evolution? I believe this is an essential purpose in order to help fund the website. We may want to expand our offering of products. Devin and Jan had books that seemed interesting to me. We have a number of musicians...maybe we could put together some tapes or cds of humanist songs? Forrest also suggests the website could be >3) a service to people who need guidance in how to raise children in >a world surrounded by Christian fanatics? Certainly this has been one attraction subscribers have mentioned as a reason for joining the group and reading our publications. Another way to say it is we offer a "family" or "community" to other humanists. I believe we could make this one aspect of the website, especially if we feature some of the other literature and services we've developed over the decades, such as our service badge series that Devin developed, and have some interactive function, such as Forrest suggests next. >4) a forum for Humanists with families or young children? I believe this can also be a feature of our site. If we offer our publications in an atractive manner and have a forum that is adequately publicized so that it draws an adequate audience of participants, then one result would be to achieve item #3. We may have to develop each step one at a time...and it could take some time to do it well? -------- Forrest asks: >Does the Family of Humanists fill a niche that is not filled by other >Humanist organizations? I think we did more completely and better previously, but because of HFK, we still do. I've read the AHA's and Secular Humanists newsletters aimed at families...they are exclusively aimed at adult readers... We need to recruit editors of our youth newsletters to once again offer more that was unique to us. -------- Forrest askes further: >What can be added to the website, or how can the website design be changed, to better serve its purpose? - Text from back issues of the newsletters? - History of Humanism reprints? (Devin, are you working on this as a publication?) - Advice on how to deal with Christian relatives or how to raise kids >as Humanists? In addition to the forum Forrest suggests and the revival of the youth newsletters...or something equivalent...that I mentioned, I agree we should put some of our past newsletters... say all of 2003 and some of the "best" from years before, Devin's cycle of celebrations (with a reference to another site I located) Pointers to other worthy sites. Perhaps, some humanist music or lyrics Feature some of our other literature and developments, such as the humanist youth service badges, winter solstice paper, Devin's humanist profiles, and probably other items we'll remember as we proceed, And, feature some parts of our bylaws...aims, purpose, etc. Lloyd PO Box 4153, Salem, OR 97302 (503) 371-1255 -- end << Lloyd Kumley: From foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org Wed Mar 3 07:21:28 2004 From: foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org (foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 02:21:28 EST Subject: [foh-mail-list]Re: foh-mail-list digest, Vol 1 #5 - 3 msgs Message-ID: <159.2f1a2a9c.2d76e178@aol.com> Thanks Forrest, Devin, and Lloyd, for your thoughts! In a message dated 2/29/04 11:22:45 PM, foh-mail-list-request@lists.familyofhumanists.org writes: << Our web site is for: 1) adding members? What is a member? Just someone who subscribes to the newsletter?>> That definition is ok by me. (Lloyd's citing the bylaws is refreshing.) I have felt for a long time that FOH needs members! Making the site useful and appealing is a great start. Then *publicizing* the site with ads in publications, and links around the web, would get us a big increase in traffic. This could bring in new members and perhaps their involvement would revitalize FOH. That's my dream for us. <<2) selling HFK and Why Evolution?>> Absolutely! Plus anything else we come up with of our own, such as Devin's histories, and certainly "best of the youth newsletters" digests. Plus quite reasonably, any books or items not created by us, but which we believe should be picked up on by families. There are good humanist kids' books, the nice humanis t pins I've mentioned in my columns, etc. This would expand our "mail order department" (aka Lloyd!). This type of activity would bring in some money, which could be spent on paying a mail order employee if necessary, and on ADVERTISING in any case. <<3) a service to people who need guidance in how to raise children in a world surrounded by Christian fanatics?>> No doubt. Bet's not say "surrounded by Christian fanatics". Most are not fanatics, and we shouldn't leave out the fanatics of other religions. I'd say "a world overly controlled by religious dogma and perceptions." <<4) a forum for Humanists with families or young children?>> Absolutely. <> Definitely. Lloyd said it well. I truly appreciate the "human scale" of our style. Other humanist web sites and publications I've seen generally ignore everyday life and everyday families. <> All the above and more. One good thing about a web site is that it can be a useful resource by containing useful material. The site can be a compilation of our best work, with a newsletter (or three) and forum to keep things up to date. This to me should be our new direction for the 21st century. Sounds maybe grandiose, but I mean it. Thanks for asking, Forrest! Pete From foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org Tue Mar 30 02:07:38 2004 From: foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org (Forrest Carroll) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:07:38 -0800 Subject: [foh-mail-list]Re: booklet order and planning ahead In-Reply-To: <004c01c415a4$1160e880$ca01a8c0@pacbell.net> References: <50.29e957f7.2d966eb2@aol.com> <004c01c415a4$1160e880$ca01a8c0@pacbell.net> Message-ID: There are several Adobe products that produce Acrobat (PDF) files. I have used Adobe FrameMaker and Adobe PageMaker in the past. If we're talking about scanning them, there are other ways. Scanning to text is one way, but typically takes some editing after the scans are done. Scanning to pictures I think eventually you can get PDF files out of them but I don't know what software might be involved. Does Photoshop produce PDF? - I just checked and it does. So we might try high-quality scans and put them through Photoshop and make PDF files that way. Or scan into text, edit them, and place as HTML files. HTML files are going to be a lot more accessable to viewers, and take much less space on the web server. I think PDF files would be less labor intensive (only because of the post-scanning editing.) -Forrest > > P.S. Lloyd and Devin, what do you propose we do about planning the future >(at >> least next couple of years) for FOH. Forrest and I spoke of using the web >> site as a way to pull together what is now a pretty illustrious set of >past >> writings and make them available for the current generation of younger >families. >> This seems good to me. >> >> A selective loading of archives onto the site would be a very positive >thing >> both for the potential audience as well as the info itself, which is >otherwise >> essentially lost to the future. That could be our "third generation" >project >> to keep up with while waiting for some 2nd (parent age) generation people >to >> show up and get active, hopefully. >> >> What do you guys think? >> >> Pete > >This is a good idea. Do we need Acrobat Adobe writer? Or can we do it with >HTML? > >-Devin From foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org Tue Mar 30 09:34:57 2004 From: foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org (foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 04:34:57 EST Subject: [foh-mail-list]posting selected archived articles on the web site Message-ID: <1ea.1c97dc5f.2d9a9941@aol.com> In a message dated 3/29/04 11:24:53 PM, foh-mail-list-request@lists.familyofhumanists.org writes: << we might try high-quality scans and put them through Photoshop and make PDF files that way. Or scan into text, edit them, and place as HTML files. HTML files are going to be a lot more accessable to viewers, and take much less space on the web server. >> Good thoughts there, Devin. Text files would indeed be more accessible, and allow people to easily "grab" them, use excerpts, etc. This seems user friendly, which is good. I question whether editing makes sense, because that can sure slow things down, especially if the editor is not the same person as the writer. I'd say that even dated stuff might as well stand, as it will be presented as something from the archives. Perhaps each of us could go through some back issues and suggest some items we think are worth presenting on the site. Once some of those are picked, we have incentive to move forward with this plan. Pete www.drbanjo.com From foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org Tue Mar 30 15:14:25 2004 From: foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org (Forrest Carroll) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:14:25 -0800 Subject: [foh-mail-list]posting selected archived articles on the web site In-Reply-To: <1ea.1c97dc5f.2d9a9941@aol.com> References: <1ea.1c97dc5f.2d9a9941@aol.com> Message-ID: >In a message dated 3/29/04 11:24:53 PM, >Forrest writes: > ><< we might >try high-quality scans and put them through Photoshop and make PDF >files that way. Or scan into text, edit them, and place as HTML >files. HTML files are going to be a lot more accessable to viewers, >and take much less space on the web server. >> Pete responds: > >Good thoughts there, Devin. Text files would indeed be more accessible, and >allow people to easily "grab" them, use excerpts, etc. This seems user >friendly, which is good. I question whether editing makes sense, >because that can sure >slow things down, especially if the editor is not the same person as the >writer. I'd say that even dated stuff might as well stand, as it >will be presented >as something from the archives. > >Perhaps each of us could go through some back issues and suggest some items >we think are worth presenting on the site. Once some of those are picked, we >have incentive to move forward with this plan. Pete: By "edit" I mean correct the typos that the scanner creates, so that the text is the same as the original. I've never seen scanner-to-text software yet that is 100% accurate. -Forrest From foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org Wed Mar 31 10:17:37 2004 From: foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org (foh-mail-list@lists.familyofhumanists.org) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:17:37 EST Subject: [foh-mail-list]Re: foh-mail-list digest, Vol 1 #9 - 3 msgs Message-ID: <12c.3e56cca5.2d9bf4c1@aol.com> In a message dated 3/30/04 11:24:15 PM, foh-mail-list-request@lists.familyofhumanists.org writes: << By "edit" I mean correct the typos that the scanner creates, so that the text is the same as the original. I've never seen scanner-to-text software yet that is 100% accurate. >> Forrest, Yes, that's certainly true, and of course I agree it's a good idea to fix those scanning and OCR (optical character recognition) goofs. "Editing" normally refers to rearranging and changing text. What you're suggesting is "proofreading for typos". As mentioned, let's each pick some items that seem worthy of being on the web site. Pete